From Zero to 100K Real Quick: How Mina AF Engaged Mina Starsiak Hawk’s Existing Audience with Producer Megan Hayward
Podcast Bestie, the Podcast
Episode 4 Show Notes
Guest: Megan Hayward, full-time editaudio producer, working on podcasts including Mina AF with Mina Starsiak Hawk, On The Road & more.
Host: Courtney Kocak, Podcast Bestie founder
Hi Besties! Today’s special guest is Megan Hayward from editaudio. We are very lucky because she has a delightful British accent that is very easy on the ears! Megan is here because last month (March 14th, to be exact), I saw on Twitter that the show she’s producing hit 100K downloads. The show is called Mina AF, and it’s hosted by HGTV star Mina Starsiak Hawk. In this episode, we discuss how Megan and the team approach the creative and producing on this new show, plus how they engaged Mina’s pre-existing audience (and tapped a podcasting headliner) for a successful launch. Megan also shares tips on how to get started in freelance producing, the software tools that help her stay organized, her philosophy on video’s place in podcasting — a hot-button topic right now — and more.
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Visit Megan and the editaudio team at The Podcast Show 2023 on May 24th and May 25th in London. Check out thepodcastshowlondon.com for more information.
If you missed the last episode, check out The Art of Podcast Marketing with Devin Andrade from Tink Media.
Thanks to Michael Castañeda for mixing and mastering this episode. Follow him on Twitter and Instagram @plasticaudio.
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TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:03] MEGAN HAYWARD: Hi, I'm Meghan Hayward. I'm a podcast producer at editaudio and I produce Mina AF and On The Road and a few of our other little shows. [00:00:10]
[00:00:11] COURTNEY KOCAK: Hey, Podcast Besties! Welcome back to the show dedicated to making your podcast the best it can be. I'm Courtney Kocak, your BFF in helping you grow and monetize your show. And today's special guest Bestie is Megan Hayward from editaudio. And we are very, very lucky because she has the most delightful British accent and it is very easy on the ears. So Megan is here because last month I saw on Twitter that the show she's producing hit 100,000 downloads and the show is called Mina AF. It's hosted by Mina, who is an HGTV star. So we are going to talk about how Megan and the team approach the creative and producing on this new show by engaging Mina's preexisting audience. And Megan also shares tips on how to get started in freelance producing, the software tools that help her stay organized, her philosophy on video's place in podcasting, which we all know is a hot-button topic right now, and more. But first, let's begin with Meghan's foray into audio. [00:01:18]
[00:01:20] MEGAN HAYWARD: Yeah, so I guess I started out doing student radio. My sixth form had a little station and I kept putting in requests to the point where they were like, Do you just want to come and do a show? I mean, And so I was like, Yeah. And then I ended up doing TV and radio at uni and just completely abandoning the TV side and just really falling in love with speech radio because I really enjoyed how only takes one person to create audio where it's like TV. You have to rely on lots of people, which means more things can go wrong. And I like being really self-sufficient. [00:01:53]
[00:01:55] COURTNEY KOCAK: Totally. [00:01:55]
[00:01:56] MEGAN HAYWARD: So I ended up being station manager of the speech-based student radio station and then just got into making podcasts because it's like nice and fun and ended up doing a master's at Sunderland Uni in podcasting and audio and radio. [00:02:13]
[00:02:13] COURTNEY KOCAK: That's a course? [00:02:14]
[00:02:15] MEGAN HAYWARD: Yeah, is. [00:02:15]
[00:02:16] COURTNEY KOCAK: Like a new one? [00:02:17]
[00:02:18] MEGAN HAYWARD: So there's been a Master's in radio for ages, but they changed the name of it to M.A. Radio, Audio, and Podcasting two years ago I think, and then a few more in the UK have sprouted up since and I think it's caused a bit of a not a debate. But there's lots of people who rightly say, Oh, you don't need a Master's to go into it and you don't. But what I would say is doing the Master's gave me an opportunity to create things. You know, education aside, I was able to create things for a year and get connected with the industry and just really find where my skill sets stood. Whereas if you're building up podcasting as a side hustle, you can't dedicate 24 hours of your time to it. So there's pros and cons to obviously getting in student debt and stuff. But for me, it was right when the pandemic sort of was really kicking off and I knew that I needed to do something to keep the momentum going, to get my audio career going. And it's paid off because now I'm full-time at Audio, which is a global queer-owned production company who are mission-driven to create more space for underrepresented folks in audio. So it's sort of nice to end up at a really nice company. [00:03:30]
[00:03:31] COURTNEY KOCAK: Yeah, that's awesome. So were you connected with them through your program or did you kind of find them out on your own? [00:03:36]
[00:03:37] MEGAN HAYWARD: A friend of mine, through doing student radio in the UK, was already I was working with them and they needed an extra freelancer and she recommended me and then I was freelancing, was finishing up my Master's, and then luckily six months later they were hiring full-time and I was like, Please, please me. And it's just been the dream ever since. [00:03:58]
[00:03:59] COURTNEY KOCAK: Totally. Okay, so for someone who, you know, maybe doesn't have a Master's program and is trying to like, bootstrap themselves into the industry, what's your biggest tip for landing that first gig? [00:04:12]
[00:04:13] MEGAN HAYWARD: Just networking, Just talk to people. Twitter. I know it's sort of a bit going a bit chaotic at the moment, but it was a really good network tool, better than LinkedIn, and there's all sorts of especially in the UK, there's all sorts of like hubs you can crack into if you're in the US, The Podcast Academy. There's all of these avenues that are making it a more accessible industry to get into. There's lots of wild Facebook groups that are really big and I don't know how much success people get finding work in them, but just connecting and making as many friends you can in the industry, especially if you're freelancing because all you need is one person to recommend you to another and then it snowballs and then you can hopefully be successful. [00:04:54]
[00:04:55] COURTNEY KOCAK: Yeah, I've gotten so much referral work in podcasting, it's crazy. So let's talk Mina AF. I reached out to you because I saw on Twitter that you guys had reached 100K and I think that was like several weeks ago. So I'm sure you're even further along now. So you're a producer on the show. And I was listening to one episode where you were like an on-air producer too, which was really fun. So I'm curious your approach to making content for the show and how you think about the creative, and you can introduce who Mina is a little bit too. [00:05:31]
[00:05:32] MEGAN HAYWARD: Yes. So Mina is a presenter on HGTV. She's got a TV show, Good Bones and like other stuff, and she's basically grown a big following by renovating all of these houses and just being really cool person in Indiana. And we partnered up with— editaudio partnered up with AdLarge and Mina's team to get me a podcast going so that she could connect with her audience. And we've ended up just like on a bit of a mission to break down stigmas and to talk about subjects that people often are uncomfortable to talk about. So we've talked about grief, a fair bit with her husband, Steve, which, you know, men's mental health is such an important topic. Everyone's mental health is an important topic, but it's really resonated. I think having a man talk about his feelings and his struggles and then the controversial side to getting plastic surgery done, we had Mina's surgeon on and that was like really fun and just hearing that side of things. And so we just sort of approach each topic with a— no judgment is a judgment-free zone. Let's just find out as much as we can get an expert in or get somebody who's passionate about talking about these things, as well as that we also want to open it up as well to Mina's audience and give them a chance to get involved and talk. So we've got a little voicemail box and every now and again we'll go through the voicemail box and answer a bunch of questions. And it's always really interesting because you've got all of these people from all over the world that have got things that they want to say and ask, and it's just such a nice, unique way to connect to someone rather than just like replying in a comment. You can get a bit more of a personal rapport going. So that's that's really fun. [00:07:10]
[00:07:11] COURTNEY KOCAK: Yeah. I produced a show for the Bella Twins. They are WWE wrestlers and reality stars. They're now called the Garcia Twins. Anyway, listening to the show made me think of that. I was like, Oh, that's a very similar kind of gig. And what's awesome about it is you do have this built-in audience that you can use to kind of generate topics and be more in conversation with them. Then, you know, if you're just starting a show and there's no built-in audience, then you're like finding those people first, so you're not talking to them right away. [00:07:47]
[00:07:48] MEGAN HAYWARD: Yeah, and I think that's why it's been such a hit with her followers already, because Mina is such a candid, honest person and it's just so refreshing, especially in the world of social media, where people lie and they edit and they Photoshop and stuff. It's just like raw, honest thoughts and it's just been really nice to connect that and have it sort of out in the world. [00:08:09]
[00:08:11] COURTNEY KOCAK: Hey, Besties. As podcast creators, we are always on the lookout for effective ways to grow our audiences, right? That's probably why you're listening to this, and that is why I am so excited to introduce you to mowPod Boost self-serve. It is a game-changing tool designed specifically for small to medium-sized podcast creators like you and me. And if you are a paid Podcast Bestie subscriber, you already know I am a huge mowPod Boost fan. They are at the top of my leaderboard in terms of cost-effective podcast advertising right now. And don't just take it for me. They are already trusted by industry giants like Conde Nast iHeartMedia and the HubSpot Podcast Network. So I am confident that mobile booth self-serve is going to quickly become your go-to for listener growth because I am using it myself. I use it on all of my podcasts. They are the sponsor for Podcast Bestie Season One. And so we are going gangbusters, and I am seeing incredible results, and I also pay to use it on my other podcasts. I use it for private parts unknown, and I've been seeing very impressive growth that is really helping me out on the monetization side. And I keep reinvesting, and I'm seeing great results. And I also use it for the Bleeders, my podcast about book writing and publishing, and it's helping me find the very niche audience that I need to find for that podcast. And you can see the results on the back end, at least 1 to 1, sometimes even more. You get a lot of bang for your buck. So I encourage you to try it out and see the results for yourself. And the best part about it is for being a bestie. You get 10% off. So if you use the referral link in the description, you are going to get 10% off. And that means instead of $0.90 per download, you are going to pay. $0.81 per download, and you can get started for as little as $100. So get out there, Besties. Grow that show. Let me know what you think. I think you're going to love it. [00:10:13]
[00:10:15] COURTNEY KOCAK: So, okay. I listened to— you started, you released an episode in December and it was like, Meet Mina, and it was like a 25-minute-ish episode. And I didn't know Mina before and I was like, Whoa, you in deep in that first episode, It's like about her parents' divorces and, like, all this stuff. That was fascinating. But, you know, we just dropped right in. And then there was a teaser, I think, in early January. And then brilliantly, you launch the first, like real episode with Ashley Flowers, right? [00:10:52]
[00:10:53] MEGAN HAYWARD: Yeah. [00:10:53]
[00:10:54] COURTNEY KOCAK: So explain how you thought about and I know there's a team involved, but like how you guys were thinking about how to lay out those first couple episodes and string it out like that. Cause I was like, that's actually like a very smart use of those three pieces of content to like, really start out with a bang. [00:11:11]
[00:11:11] MEGAN HAYWARD: So I would say the most important lesson for starting any podcast ever is to just get as many episodes in the bank first before you even think about launching because you're very quickly run out of them as well. And then you'll be panic scrambling for content to get together. And so, you know, we were in pre-production for a good six months, I think, before we launched, gathering ideas and reaching out to people. And, you know, when you first reach out of a podcast sort of saying we don't really know like necessarily how it's going to turn out yet. or like all these sorts of things. So it was quite nice, I think for Mina as well for the first initial episodes to be with people that she knew and trusted. So her husband, a surgeon who's also like friends of her husband, and Ashley, who because they live in Indiana, it's a small place, apparently. [00:11:55]
[00:11:56] COURTNEY KOCAK: Yeah. [00:11:56]
[00:11:57] MEGAN HAYWARD: So they were already like good friends. And it was a really natural conversation because they knew each other and it was really fun to edit as well. It's always, it's always a pleasure when there's two people that are chatting and joking and it's just funny to listen as you work along with it. [00:12:09]
[00:12:09] COURTNEY KOCAK: Yeah, at first I was like, Oh, this was really smart casting, you know, essentially for that first big episode. But then it turns out they do know each other and there is like this really real relationship. So it's like kind of double benefit because you did get to go deep and learn about Mina, but you have this like podcasting star to help you kick things off. So how is the rest of the season been going? And yeah, if there's anything upcoming you can share that's been fun to make. [00:12:41]
[00:12:43] MEGAN HAYWARD: Yeah, there's all sorts going on. It's, it's always chaotic I think is a good way of describing it just because we cover such a range of topics. So, you know, one minute we'll be talking about grief, the next minute we'll be talking about sex therapy. We had a sex therapist on last week that was super interesting and then controversially, as well. I mean, I did an episode about vibrators, which again, is just one of those things that is good, especially if you've got an audience that's predominantly women to be talking about, those sorts of things. So, yeah, we've got all sorts of guests lined up. What I've been working on this week is some more question box episodes and going through the audience and it's really nice because now people are starting to not just leave questions, but to leave anecdotes and to tell us how they're like enjoying the podcast. And, you know, for example, people are really connecting with the grief episode and to hear people, you know, it's one thing to read a review that someone's written saying that they connect with them, but to hear them say it, it's been quite powerful. And I it took me off guard listening to some of the voice messages and be like, Oh, this is more than just like a fun, silly podcast. It's really like resonating with people. And even if it just resonates with one person, you've got a successful show, so it's great to do that on a relatively big scale. [00:13:54]
[00:13:55] COURTNEY KOCAK: Yeah, totally. So I was curious because, you know, she's an HGTV star, so from what I heard so far, it's like lifestyle stuff. And like about her life, are there plans to do anything in the home improvement space on the show? [00:14:12]
[00:14:13] MEGAN HAYWARD: So yeah, basically we've got a few things lined up. We really want to do an episode where she solely answers design questions and to maybe get a few people in from her. Well, to do that with her because we think that would be quite nice too, especially if you're a fan of the show, to see the people that are involved in it and to get some proper advice going. And then we've also got coming up an episode with one of her previous— ah, I've forgotten her title, but somebody that was a designer on the show for like when they did the staged houses and that is definitely going to be a hit. It's got some cheeky behind-the-scenes gossip, again, is absolutely hilarious because they're just talking about the woes that is working on on a TV show in quite a hectic world. So yeah, there's a few things on the card hopefully for fans of the TV show. [00:15:04]
[00:15:04] COURTNEY KOCAK: In my experience, every celebrity show I've worked on is chaotic. Like it just has to be kind of just by the nature of their jobs and busyness and stuff like that. So how do you as a producer, try to keep everything straight? Like even on the back end, do you have any tips or strategies for making sure everything stays organized and you're producing at the top of your game? [00:15:31]
[00:15:31] MEGAN HAYWARD: I think being overprepared is never a bad thing because it's fine to have lots of prompts ready and lots of research done and to make your host as prepared as they can be. And then if they don't use any of the prompts, if the conversation goes really natural and goes completely away, that's great because you've got the best conversation you possibly could. If you send them into a conversation without any prep, then I presume I've never done it, but I presume then it's just a bit awkward and stilted because they do need things to rely on. So I definitely make sure that you're prepared, you're researched, you've briefed your host before it starts and giving them a heads up, you know. I try to give at least 24 hours notice before the prep that I do so that there's time to go through things. And if there's any questions or if there's any hesitations, they can be resolved. Rather than it being like 2 minutes before, okay, here's a person in front of you. I don't know how like live TV on because some people like that roll off them, but I can just improv off a document. I have to be so, like, prepared. [00:16:33]
[00:16:34] COURTNEY KOCAK: Yeah. Yeah. Do you use any software or anything like that that helps? Are you like a Notion person or a Google Drive Docs person or what do you use for that stuff? [00:16:44]
[00:16:45] MEGAN HAYWARD: All of the things. We've got an Airtable for the production side of things. I personally use Notion so that I can keep a track of my like little tick boxes and goals and things because it's not just me in or after I work on, I work on like a bunch of things and making them all fit together and getting the timing so I can be a bit of a juggle. And then, we use Riverside to record. Obviously I'm in the UK and Mina's in Indiana, so luckily she's such a morning person, so time difference has barely been an issue. [00:17:13]
[00:17:15] COURTNEY KOCAK: That's great. [00:17:15]
[00:17:15] MEGAN HAYWARD: But yeah, we recorded remotely over Riverside, which is a really nice like studio set up. It's a bit like Zoom but, but not. And then yeah, we use Google Drive to keep all of the documents in check and then I edit in Adobe Audition. And also we use Descript so that we make little transcripts. So when we send the episodes out to review for the different teams that are involved, they can just go through the transcript and add little comments on Google Docs, it's a collaborative document. And yeah, it flows. [00:17:46]
[00:17:48] COURTNEY KOCAK: That's awesome. [00:17:48]
[00:17:52] COURTNEY KOCAK: Hey, Besties. I am so excited because this show already has 26 ratings on Apple Podcasts. 26 five-star ratings. And I want to take a second to shout out the BFFs who took the time to leave. five-star ratings and reviews. It means the freakin world to me. So I got a review from Kyrin Down from the Mere Mortals podcast, and Kyrin is going to be on Podcast Bestie very soon talking about V4V podcasts. I'm really excited to share that with you. And Kyrin said it's off to a strong start. Hard to go past James Cridland as a first guest. Funnily enough, I don't get sick of podcasts about podcasts and Courtney has an infectious laugh which makes it more fun. And I also got a review from CC 826826. So helpful as someone starting out in the field of podcasting, I've found Courtney is podcast and newsletter to be so incredibly helpful. Keep up the good work. Looking forward to hearing more. AboutIDB says: Great information. The podcast space is really unique and it's not always as simple as having a microphone and a message. I'm excited to continue to learn about the art and craft of podcasting from Podcast Bestie. I've already gotten great tips and ideas right off the start with episode one and I am looking forward to more. Thank you. AboutIDB. Please hit me up and let me know who you are so I could shout you out. And if you want to be a voice who makes my freakin day, please go to Apple Podcasts. Give me a five-star rating and review. Either leave your name and your show info in the rating and review or send me an email with a screenshot and I will shout you out on the next episode. [00:19:31]
[00:19:34] COURTNEY KOCAK: So let's talk social media. So Mina had a big social media audience to capitalize on. How did you guys think about that going into it and getting into the marketing side of like making sure that her audience was going to know and you guys could have a great launch? [00:19:50]
[00:19:51] MEGAN HAYWARD: I'll be honest, I had very little to do with any of the marketing points around it because we do collaborate with with AdLarge. And obviously, I mean, it's got such a pre-established audience. It's kind of hard for me with my 2000 followers to tell anyone. [00:20:04]
[00:20:05] COURTNEY KOCAK: Right. [00:20:05]
[00:20:05] MEGAN HAYWARD: How to engage with their audience. So I think I think from what it feels like, we tried to be as like organic as possible and like and with having the voice machine, the little link for— to leave answer messages, that was a way to sort of soft launch and connect early on. We had that link up for quite a few months before we actually started recording, so people were able to sort of get a tease and get a feel for what was going on. And then we kind of just of like card launched after the trailer went out on socials, it was like, Hey, some episodes, have a listen. Let us know what you think. For the episodes like the surgery one, Mina reposted all of her— the like comparison pictures, and that was a really good way for people to get interested because they could see the pictures and then be like, Oh, there's a full story I can go and listen to. So that seemed to do well. I'm just sort of starting to get into making little video social clips for some of our other shows at editaudio, because I really do think that visualization for podcasts is a good thing. But for the majority of shows, I think it's good to just focus on having the odd little, you know, 10-30-second clip rather than putting a big like, long video production out, because I don't think a video show is the same as a podcast. But, but that's been fun, I've just started dabbling around. And Riverside has actually made it this this last week really easy to get video social clips. You can now search like a keyword and it will point you to that point in the video where you said something and then you can— instead of searching for ages to find the clip, it will just take you right there. So it's been a fun little project I've been doing recently for one of our original shows Well... Adjusting. And yeah, it's been a learning curve for me because I really do want to get into, you know, a bit more video production to upskill myself because it's very clear that that's the way podcasting is going in terms of marketing. So you just got to try things. See on how they go, if it doesn't work, drop it, try something new. [00:22:03]
[00:22:04] COURTNEY KOCAK: Yes, test and learn. Exactly. Okay. So I've been asking everyone this recurring question. I have three podcasts now. I'm addicted. I have private parts unknown, which is my longest-running one. It's about love and sexuality around the world. It does pretty well, but I I'm really like trying to take it to the next level so that it's actually profitable. And then I have the Bleeders, which is about book writing and publishing. Honestly, I'm just trying to sell a book and it's great networking. And then obviously you're on podcast Bestie right now, so audit me basically. Is there one tip that you think I should implement or stop doing or try something new? Anything, just looking in that you would offer as an audit. [00:22:55]
[00:22:56] MEGAN HAYWARD: I really do think that TikTok and Instagram reels can be revolutionary to the way a lot of people find shows. It's where I'd say I've found most of the shows I now listen to in the past 12 months. So it's all about making yourself as discoverable as possible. I personally have never like, flipped through the iTunes charts to see what I should be listening to. If I've seen a funny clip on Tik Tok that's made me go, Oh, this is funny. And then I see another one, I'm like, okay, I'm going to give this podcast a chance. I'm very into comedy podcasts and that sort of thing. So it's quite easy for me to find podcasts like that because comedians are used to putting themselves out there like that. And I think that you should be embracing video personally. But also I really love how podcasting is a very unique tool for connecting with someone and how you should always talk to your audience as if you're just talking to one person because that's what makes them feel like they are really connected to the to the person that's speaking. So there's getting the balance right. You don't have to go full-scale video production multi-cam set up, but there is something that can be said for making yourself as discoverable as possible. Being on as many platforms as possible and just making sure that people know where to find you. [00:24:15]
[00:24:15] COURTNEY KOCAK: First of all, I love the differentiation of like, Yeah, it's not the same show, it's not the same art to try to make a great video podcast and a great audio podcast. Like I edit them totally different. I'm trying to get into video a little bit more too, and you know, you don't edit out as many things in like it's just it's just totally, to me a really different process. But I think that's a great tip too of like, yeah, you don't have to be your full-scale show on YouTube necessarily, but having a solid piece that's there where people can find you and making that part of your release. I think that's a really good idea. Awesome. Is there anything else you want to tell the Besties before we wrap up? [00:25:02]
[00:25:04] MEGAN HAYWARD: If anyone's in the UK, they're going to be Podcast Show London, so come find us our booth. We're going to be bringing hopefully season four of On the Road, which is our little like— we set up a little sound booth and invite people in to come and like share their secrets all next. So come and check us out there and you can find us. We've got a newsletter, we do a monthly indie pop shout out, so get in touch. And yeah, thank you for having me. [00:25:30]
[00:25:32] COURTNEY KOCAK: The Podcast Show 2023 is at the Design Center in London, May 24th and 25th. So stop by and say hi to Megan if you're in town. And for more information, you can check out the website, the podcast show London dot com and there is a link in the episode description to sign up for the monthly editaudio newsletter that she mentioned. Thank you so much to Megan for sharing such great information and thank you so much for tuning in to Podcast Bestie and sticking with us to the end. Last week's episode with Devin Andrade from Tink Media touched on the creative side of podcast marketing. We also talked about podcast accessibility and transcripts and how to get started with that, and it included a few different opportunities to have your podcast featured. So I hope you all called the Pod-At-Me hotline. I'm planning to call in today. I have a really great podcast recommendation. For all the details on Devin and how to submit, make sure you go back and check out that episode if you haven't listened yet. And you can check out my other podcasts, Private Parts Unknown, which is about love and sexuality around the world, and the bleeders about book writing and publishing, for more of my audio creations. And I'm also teaching a class. I am teaching another class through Pandemic University. This time it is a one-day intensive. We are doing it on May 13th, which is a Saturday, and it is going to be just a three-hour jam fest on how to grow and monetize your show. All of my strategies and philosophies for how to do that, how to make the money ecosystem work as an indie podcaster, I am just going to be laying it all out. You are going to get way more information than you maybe even wanted, but I think it's going to help you figure out how to set up your system. So check that out, more information in the description on that. And in between episodes, you can stay in touch with me @courtneykocak - that is K-O-C-A-K - on Instagram and Twitter. And I send out lots of newsletter exclusives to my Besties as well. So make sure you are signed up for Podcast Bestie on Substack, that's the newsletter version. That is podcast bestie dot substack dot com slash welcome. Of course, there's a link in the description. And until next time, happy podcasting! Bye Bestie. [00:25:32]